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Post by Blunashun on Nov 23, 2018 21:21:24 GMT
Yesterday was the 55th anniversary of JFK's assassination. Whether you're a conspiracy theorist or not, you have to admit there have been some perplexing questions raised as to who might or might not have had a hand in his murder.
Was it the Mob? They certainly had the motivation. Bobby Kennedy was going after them with a vengeance. I've often wondered if that was at least partially racially motivated. During the McClellan hearings, Bobby housed an Anglo mobster from Portland. This guy actually stayed & dined at the Kennedy residence & table. He was a gambler, loanshark, pimp & drug dealer. The guys Bobby seemed to target fell into other ethnic groups. His father, Joseph, had what people at the time termed, "the Irish Mob." But as a bootlegger, Joseph would have had to deal with many gangsters of other ethnicities. The Irish had been marked for elimination from the rackets by these other groups. They were already the police & politicians getting paid off to look the other way. Do we have to compete with them too? Away went Big Bill Dwyer, Vannie Higgins, Danny Walsh, Dean O'Banion, Owney Madden, etc. Were there unguarded moments when Joseph's frustration boiled over in front of his children? Did Bobby later act out his father's animosity? If so, that was particularly unwise because Joseph had gone behind his sons' backs & courted the Mafia's help to get John elected.
Was it Castro? Possibly. He knew the Kennedy's were trying to kill him. There had already been the aborted Bay of Pigs fiasco. The Missiles of October only heightened tensions. Castro was two-faced enough to do it without the added motive. Besides, the U.S. had no qualms about assassinating other world leaders (see South Vietnam & the Dominican Republic). But if he were discovered, not even the might of the Soviet Union could have kept the U.S. from invading & putting Castro on trial in a kangaroo court.
The military / industrial complex, like in Oliver Stone's movie? They wanted a war in Vietnam. Johnson went into Vietnam. If JFK were truly caught in a crossfire (lunging forward & then back), that hit came off with military precision. Few people realize the wealthy & affluent had attempted to kill FDR & stage a coup d'état. They even had his replacement all lined up. So conspiracies aren't as wild as some people make out.
Johnson himself? It happened in Dallas, long a Johnson strongehold. Bobby was investigating Bobby Baker, Johnson's assistant / political advisor. If they could tie Johnson to the scandal, not only would his political career be over, he might actually serve some time. Besides that, the rumor was Jack didn't really care much for LBJ beforehand & was going to drop him from the 1964 presidential ticket either way. Johnson didn't care for the Kennedy's beforehand. Really, no one much liked Bobby Kennedy. Including J. Edgar Hoover. With one fell swoop, Johnson could end his own legal nightmare & become Bobby's boss.
But the most likely candidate to me is the CIA. Although Oswald's shots would have been amazing considering the distance, terrain, & the fact Hoover's FBI had him using a WWII Italian bolt action rifle, it's not that big a deal to get off a shot at the president. Two crackpots almost got Ford & Reagan. It's getting away with it that's the trick. The CIA had trained assassins & were skilled at smokescreens after the fact. Allen Dulles was dismissed as Director of the Agency after the Bay of Pigs. JFK was looking for scapegoats. Yet somehow Dulles wound up on the Warren Commission. The CIA had also worked hand in hand with the mafia after Castro closed down their casinos in Havana. They tried hiring the Mob to kill Castro. The Mafia thought they got the better of the Agency by taking their money & never really trying. But if people are still speculating that it might have been YOU (& not them), how stupid would the CIA have been? They got their war. Kennedy had threatened to break them up into a thousand tiny pieces. They're still here. You don't threaten people like that.
The moral of the story is don't make so many enemies in life that no one can figure out who killed you. Sorry. That's just the truth.
RIP, Jack.
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20DodgerMiracle24
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Post by 20DodgerMiracle24 on Nov 23, 2018 22:12:34 GMT
The debate rages on! There's evidence to support all the theories. If it wasnt' Oswald, he had to play some kind of role. His co-workers said he was totally non-chalant when they tried to talk to him about Kennedy's motorcade passing by the building. He sneaked on a bus before his shift was over (no one else who worked there did and you don't leave the job site early unless your boss dismisses you), was in and out of the boarding house he lived in like a shot, went to the movies (even if Obama was murdered, whom I never liked, I wouldn't be in any mood to be entertained), to quote Chief Curry of the DPD, "he's very arrogant, has been all along and denies everything", and when asked about the gun powder on Oswald's clothes Curry said, "I understand it was possitive", he was very calm when the press questioned him. I can tell you that for me personally, with the whole world hearing what I say, if I was in Oswald's shoes, I'd be freaked out. On top of that, what kind of American wants to live in the Soviet Union? Oswald's brother believes he did it and acted alone. Ruth Paine just might have been one of them who set him up, if that's what happened. He was a sociopath for sure.
I asked my dad about what he thought of Kennedy. "He wasn't anything but a handsome man with a beautiful wife". I was only 4 years old.
Have you been to Dallas and checked out Dealy Plaza for yourself:? If not, I strongly encourage you to.
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Post by Blunashun on Nov 23, 2018 23:25:31 GMT
The debate rages on! There's evidence to support all the theories. If it wasnt' Oswald, he had to play some kind of role. His co-workers said he was totally non-chalant when they tried to talk to him about Kennedy's motorcade passing by the building. He sneaked on a bus before his shift was over (no one else who worked there did and you don't leave the job site early unless your boss dismisses you), was in and out of the boarding house he lived in like a shot, went to the movies (even if Obama was murdered, whom I never liked, I wouldn't be in any mood to be entertained), to quote Chief Curry of the DPD, "he's very arrogant, has been all along and denies everything", and when asked about the gun powder on Oswald's clothes Curry said, "I understand it was possitive", he was very calm when the press questioned him. I can tell you that for me personally, with the whole world hearing what I say, if I was in Oswald's shoes, I'd be freaked out. On top of that, what kind of American wants to live in the Soviet Union? Oswald's brother believes he did it and acted alone. Ruth Paine just might have been one of them who set him up, if that's what happened. He was a sociopath for sure. I asked my dad about what he thought of Kennedy. "He wasn't anything but a handsome man with a beautiful wife". I was only 4 years old. Have you been to Dallas and checked out Dealy Plaza for yourself:? If not, I strongly encourage you to. All very good points. On the Soviet Union issue, I would have to counter with what kind of government allows a Soviet defector back into the United States & doesn't closely monitor him? I think he was a double-agent. A sociopath would define the profile of a double-agent. No. I've never been to Texas. Yes. Kennedy was dangerously incompetent as a president. He brought us to the brink of annihilation. |
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Post by Blunashun on Nov 23, 2018 23:35:00 GMT
Btw - Nixon & Hoffa are two more names normally associated in conspiracy theories. Nixon might have been the most active vice-president in the history of the United States. He was pretty much the CIA's liaison to the White House during the Eisenhower administration. Kennedy found out about the CIA's invasion plans for Cuba through Allen Dulles, who figured he had a responsibility in a tight election to keep the other guy informed too. Just in case he won we would be ready to proceed. JFK then badgered Nixon in debates with his 'soft' stance on Cuba because he knew Nixon would want to keep it a secret. At the crucial moment, Kennedy denied the ex-patriots air support. Then he fired Dulles.
Hoffa had a lot of hate for "Booby," as he liked to call him. I think, when he got the news of the assassination, he said something to the effect of - "now he's just another lawyer." That was in reference to Bobby. Booby had illegally deported Carlos Marcello of New Orleans. Santo Trafficante, Carlos Marcello, Johnny Roselli & Sam Giancana are the Mafia names most often connected with JFK's death.
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Post by Blunashun on Nov 24, 2018 5:17:40 GMT
And why do organized crime books always try to make their subject matter the 'master-criminal' behind every conspiracy? I literally have a library. I could stock a public library. Read one on the Havana mob recently. TJ English (the author of that book, plus a few others) openly wondered why Meyer Lansky didn't attend the Mafia summit at Appalachian in 1957 as proof he was the one who ratted it out. Duh, because he wasn't Italian. Mafia summit = Italian. I don't care how valuable an asset to the Mafia Lansky may have been. He was still a non-Italian. How many non-Italians were captured in that dragnet? Now you make me question all your other conclusions. Okay. I'll just take your evidence & reach my own conclusions. You helped me. Thanks. Meathead.
He also had Lansky killing Albert Anastasia. Meyer couldn't do that. He would have been killed himself. You don't kill a made guy without retribution. What happened was a convergence of interests that Lansky (& others) played to the hilt. Vito Genovese tried to kill Frank Costello in an amateurish hit attempt by Vincent Gigante. I'm SURE Gigante showed enormous potential to Genovese. But that job was botched so badly it was obvious Gigante wasn't ready for the big time yet. Failing at that, now Genovese had to worry about Albert. Albert & Frank were tight. Vito went into hiding until Anastasia was taken out in a very public hit.
Carlo Gambino was encouraged in his ambitions as Anastasia's under-boss by Genovese, who wanted a consensus before he moved against the then Don of the now Gambino family. Carlo wanted his boss out of the way so he could assume control. His having Genovese's support only made it safer for him to do so.
The Gallo brothers were used for the actual dirty work. They were in the Profaci family. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Albert's elimination was sanctioned by the Commission. Three borgatas are involved now.
Meyer Lansky was looking for a safe refuge for Jewish gangsters after the five families took over New York. Bugsy Siegel moved to Los Angeles & Las Vegas. Lansky moved to southern Florida & then on to the Caribbean. His list of partners in Havana leaves a clear trail. Doc Stacher, Moe Dalitz, etc. Anastasia was trying to muscle in on the Cuban casino business.
Did Meyer rat them out? Maybe. He had to have known what was happening, when & where, through his Italian contacts. I tend to think he did, with the support of guys like Lucky Luciano & Costello. But him not being invited is patently absurd. Was anyone getting circumcised? Why would they invite Meyer Lansky? Idiot...
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Post by Blunashun on Dec 15, 2018 10:38:40 GMT
Reading Mafia Kingfish again. Davis is convinced (or that's his angle into the market) that Marcello did it. I tend to believe David Ferrie's inclusion proves CIA involvement. He was one odd, but brilliant, character. He was also the middle-man between Marcello & Oswald. He was presented to Carlos Marcello as rabidly anti-Kennedy, just when Marcello needed that most. So Marcello might have been involved in a plot. Just not the way he envisioned. He was a trail of bread crumbs leading away from the real culprit & into the milieu of potential candidates that a clandestine organization like the CIA would love to prop up to make anyone claiming conspiratorial overtones look like a nut. What was a nut like Ferrie doing there?
Marcello ultimately paid because the FBI launched a sting operation against him after the Church Committee revelations. Better to go after an aging gangster than the CIA.
I ordered a book on Bobby Baker that should be arriving any day now.
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Post by Blunashun on Dec 22, 2018 13:40:44 GMT
Found a good book on General Smedley Butler. The guy the conspirators had lined up to take FDR's place. Apparently he ratted them out in a fit of patriotism. I'm getting this next month. It was the rich who wanted Roosevelt neutralized. They considered him a traitor to his class.
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20DodgerMiracle24
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Rob Manfred is a disaster to our national pastime.
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Post by 20DodgerMiracle24 on Dec 22, 2018 15:21:07 GMT
Found a good book on General Smedley Butler. The guy the conspirators had lined up to take FDR's place. Apparently he ratted them out in a fit of patriotism. I'm getting this next month. It was the rich who wanted Roosevelt neutralized. They considered him a traitor to his class. The New Deal has been described as Hoover's policies on steroids. Many of the "jobs" created were totally useless and needless, like counting all the stray dogs you'd see in a day. And how were these "workers" paid? By FDR's executive order destroying the domestic gold standard, making owning gold coins and bullion a federal crime and giving all the power over the economy to the FED, which still creates "money" out of thin air, paper backed by nothing. FDR didn't get us out of the depression nor out of WWII. He's been a very over rated prez. |
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Post by Blunashun on Dec 22, 2018 17:32:12 GMT
Found a good book on General Smedley Butler. The guy the conspirators had lined up to take FDR's place. Apparently he ratted them out in a fit of patriotism. I'm getting this next month. It was the rich who wanted Roosevelt neutralized. They considered him a traitor to his class. The New Deal has been described as Hoover's policies on steroids. Many of the "jobs" created were totally useless and needless, like counting all the stray dogs you'd see in a day. And how were these "workers" paid? By FDR's executive order destroying the domestic gold standard, making owning gold coins and bullion a federal crime and giving all the power over the economy to the FED, which still creates "money" out of thin air, paper backed by nothing. FDR didn't get us out of the depression nor out of WWII. He's been a very over rated prez. I don't know. He gave hope where there was none. That might have prevented a revolution. He got us into WWII. His policies towards Japan provoked the Japanese into attacking us. Something they wanted to do anyway. Take advantage of the collapse of the colonial empires of Great Britain & France. While isolationists would argue that's nothing to be proud of, it was a necessary evil. FDR might not have gotten us to total victory, but there's no doubt we were well on our way when he died. The trend was irreversible. He was also a master manipulator of men. Joseph Kennedy had his own political ambitions. FDR put Kennedy in a position where he was doomed to fail. Ambassador to the Court of St. James. By the time that Nazi sympathizer was through, his political career was in shambles. Thank God there. One generation of Kennedys was more than enough. |
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Post by Blunashun on Jan 2, 2019 23:13:36 GMT
I lollygagged through Mafia Kingfish & just recently finished. It almost makes you feel sorry for Marcello. That wasn't the author's intent. Just a comparison of evil.
Bobby Kennedy was a spoiled brat who figured his brother being president made him bulletproof. Maybe. It didn't make Jack bulletproof though. Once Jack was gone Bobby was impotent.
Good for Bobby he wanted to wipe out organized crime. He should have prosecuted his father.
I forgot about Thane Cesar in the Bobby Kennedy assassination. Bobby was shot from behind. He whirled around just in time to grab Cesar's clip-on tie before hitting the floor. Cesar was a rabid segregationist & recent hire of the Ambassador Hotel.
Santo Trafficante Jr. put a hit out on Carlos Marcello after Marcello had been tricked by an FBI sting operation. These guys had been like brothers before that.
In Frank Ragano's book, Jimmy Hoffa tried to strangle Bobby Kennedy when he was denied information he needed for a trial. Kennedy didn't press charges because he was being a prick & he didn't want it known Hoffa kicked his ass.
Bobby made so many things personal that didn't have to be. One way or another, he got his brother killed.
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Post by Blunashun on Jan 10, 2019 21:09:33 GMT
Ted Kennedy could have been president too. It would have taken time away from his quality woman drowning time though.
People talk about the tragedy of the Kennedys. I don't get it. They do dumb things, get off scot free because of their money, never work a day in their lives, pork everything that moves, then get their heads blown off in a millisecond. That's my ideal.
Ted was what would have become of Jack & Bobby had they lived long enough.
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Post by Blunashun on Jan 11, 2019 8:19:52 GMT
Friday, November 22nd, 1963. I was four years old. Dad took me to Harkey's (I think that's the spelling) barbershop on Washington Blvd., near the Beethoven intersection in Mar Vista. Although not in school yet, I had begun to read. I saw "crewcut" on the menu & asked Dad what that was.
"Why not show him what a crewcut is, Harkey?"
We had always gotten butches before. But that crewcut was something else. My hair was so blonde it was almost white. I looked like an egg when Harkey got through with me.
Over the radio came the news president Kennedy had been shot. Yes, radio. Scissors & jaws dropped.
"Who's Kennedy, Dad?"
We got home & my older brothers (who I sometimes hated for their suck-ass tendencies) played me. Mom was at the kitchen table crying.
"Why are you crying Mom?"
Dave - "Because president Kennedy got shot!"
Dave was two & a half years older than me. Did he know who Kennedy was? Nope. I later came to love Dave dearly though. He knew what family was all about. I despised him as a child.
Mom was the youngest of ten children who grew up in the Great Depression with a minister for a father who cheated on his wife & left her & his children behind. Mom remembered taking hot potatoes to school on snowy mornings to stay warm. She got government shoes. When they got holes in them, they used cardboard. The family would sit by the radio & listen to fireside chats by FDR. This was the era gangsters like John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson, Bonnie & Clyde, Alvin Karpis & the Barker Gang became public heroes for lashing out at a failing establishment.
Dad was half Miami Indian when it wasn't cool to be a native American. His mother booked & his white father dumped him when he no longer needed him to stay out of WWI. I met Grandpa once. Three weeks before he died. He ran his fingers through my blond hair. His hair had been blond. Dad's was jet black. Dad wasn't a racist. He experienced racism. My memories of Dad are all good. Funny man.
Mom was a racist. It was her upbringing. But Mom taught me the value of family. She never liked my ex-wife. Our daughter walked on water, however. She was blood. As Mom evolved the racism disappeared. Everyone was "honey" & "darlin" to her. She voted for Obama twice.
I'm a cynical man. I think these guys really don't give a shit about party lines. They're all rich. They use it to divide us. Talking heads on television laugh behind our backs at our gullibility. Hey. Ratings are up. But there's just something about this new extreme right that I find inherently repulsive. It's like an extension of the talking heads & they're daring us to see how far they can go before we take to the streets.
'I'll blow your lily white ass to hell & back.'
I grew up in areas where all my friends were 'minorities.' Actually, that made me the minority. These are people who want desperately to feel a part of the system. They've fought & died to be a part of that system. They've earned the right.
Cell phones have shown us what I knew all along. Cops beat & kill people they don't like. Dave died while an APB was out on him & the cops locked up in fright when I wanted photos of the death scene. So I'm a Democrat if for no other reason than they at least pretend to care. I've met many Republicans who seem like decent people. I just can't cross over.
My daughter was at a traffic signal in Beverly Hills when she felt eyes boring into her. Tessa was driving a Benz. She described what can only be an Italian from New York. He stared at her until he finally grunted his thoughts.
"A nigger that looks like you, driving a car like that - I KNOW you gotta be a hooker."
Oh, my, GOD!
No border walls, unless they include Canada. They're a nation of smugglers. Booze, drugs, people. They don't care.
Hopefully I'm pragmatic in that I recognize how dangerous the Kennedys were with their stupidity. Reagan was also the most morally bent president we ever had. He sold out his own constituency as president of the Screen Actors Guild.
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20DodgerMiracle24
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Post by 20DodgerMiracle24 on Jan 11, 2019 13:31:46 GMT
Ted Kennedy could have been president too. It would have taken time away from his quality woman drowning time though. People talk about the tragedy of the Kennedys. I don't get it. They do dumb things, get off scot free because of their money, never work a day in their lives, pork everything that moves, then get their heads blown off in a millisecond. That's my ideal. Ted was what would have become of Jack & Bobby had they lived long enough. As I recall, Carter beat him (not by much) in the 1980 democrat primary. |
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20DodgerMiracle24
Legend
Rob Manfred is a disaster to our national pastime.
Posts: 1,790
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Post by 20DodgerMiracle24 on Jan 11, 2019 13:41:19 GMT
Friday, November 22nd, 1963. I was four years old. Dad took me to Harkey's (I think that's the spelling) barbershop on Washington Blvd., near the Beethoven intersection in Mar Vista. Although not in school yet, I had begun to read. I saw "crewcut" on the menu & asked Dad what that was. "Why not show him what a crewcut is, Harkey?" We had always gotten butches before. But that crewcut was something else. My hair was so blonde it was almost white. I looked like an egg when Harkey got through with me. Over the radio came the news president Kennedy had been shot. Yes, radio. Scissors & jaws dropped. "Who's Kennedy, Dad?" We got home & my older brothers (who I sometimes hated for their suck-ass tendencies) played me. Mom was at the kitchen table crying. "Why are you crying Mom?" Dave - "Because president Kennedy got shot!" Dave was two & a half years older than me. Did he know who Kennedy was? Nope. I later came to love Dave dearly though. He knew what family was all about. I despised him as a child. Mom was the youngest of ten children who grew up in the Great Depression with a minister for a father who cheated on his wife & left her & his children behind. Mom remembered taking hot potatoes to school on snowy mornings to stay warm. She got government shoes. When they got holes in them, they used cardboard. The family would sit by the radio & listen to fireside chats by FDR. This was the era gangsters like John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson, Bonnie & Clyde, Alvin Karpis & the Barker Gang became public heroes for lashing out at a failing establishment. Dad was half Miami Indian when it wasn't cool to be a native American. His mother booked & his white father dumped him when he no longer needed him to stay out of WWI. I met Grandpa once. Three weeks before he died. He ran his fingers through my blond hair. His hair had been blond. Dad's was jet black. Dad wasn't a racist. He experienced racism. My memories of Dad are all good. Funny man. Mom was a racist. It was her upbringing. But Mom taught me the value of family. She never liked my ex-wife. Our daughter walked on water, however. She was blood. As Mom evolved the racism disappeared. Everyone was "honey" & "darlin" to her. She voted for Obama twice. I'm a cynical man. I think these guys really don't give a shit about party lines. They're all rich. They use it to divide us. Talking heads on television laugh behind our backs at our gullibility. Hey. Ratings are up. But there's just something about this new extreme right that I find inherently repulsive. It's like an extension of the talking heads & they're daring us to see how far they can go before we take to the streets. 'I'll blow your lily white ass to hell & back.' I grew up in areas where all my friends were 'minorities.' Actually, that made me the minority. These are people who want desperately to feel a part of the system. They've fought & died to be a part of that system. They've earned the right. Cell phones have shown us what I knew all along. Cops beat & kill people they don't like. Dave died while an APB was out on him & the cops locked up in fright when I wanted photos of the death scene. So I'm a Democrat if for no other reason than they at least pretend to care. I've met many Republicans who seem like decent people. I just can't cross over. My daughter was at a traffic signal in Beverly Hills when she felt eyes boring into her. Tessa was driving a Benz. She described what can only be an Italian from New York. He stared at her until he finally grunted his thoughts. "A nigger that looks like you, driving a car like that - I KNOW you gotta be a hooker." Oh, my, GOD! No border walls, unless they include Canada. They're a nation of smugglers. Booze, drugs, people. They don't care. Hopefully I'm pragmatic in that I recognize how dangerous the Kennedys were with their stupidity. Reagan was also the most morally bent president we ever had. He sold out his own constituency as president of the Screen Actors Guild. I remember I was about 14 and I asked my dad the difference between a dem and a rep. His answer was classic! "Democrats think you need the gov't to run your life and republicans think you can run your own life." Since Clinton signed the disastrous NAFTA into law, which was instigated by Bush and every ex-prez was onhand to praise the signature, That was my turning point: I knew right there and then there wasn't any real difference between the two. They also dance on graves, exploit tragedies and unfortunate events, and both have their hands in multi mega corporations. One thing no dem has been able to explain to me is, while they bash the wealthy this way and that way, why do they dance in the streets when the stock market does well? Me personally, I'm conservative, mostly libertarian. |
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Post by Blunashun on Jan 14, 2019 2:01:48 GMT
The 'Ndrangheta (based in Ontario, Canada) is much stronger than the Mafia we've come to identify. It's mainland Italy. Calabrian in nature. The Italian government was cracking down on organized crime & their guys fled across the Atlantic & into CANADA. Canada because they're soft. Wussies on criminals & smuggling into America. I've spoken with Canadians & they hate us since Dubya's election. Okay. I didn't like him either. But don't make us treat you like a hostile nation.
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